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Thread: City Street Layout Help

  1. #1
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    Info City Street Layout Help

    Hi all,

    So I've started up a new city map. I'm in the preliminary stages at this point, and wanted to get some thoughts from you folks, specifically on the street layout. This city spans a massive bridge about 2 miles long, and about a third of a mile wide, connecting two continents. I am envisioning a wide boulevard right down the middle of the bridge, which is about 120 ft wide. In the middle is a large square, with 30 ft wide streets extending from the corners to the ends of the bridge.

    I've started on the smaller streets, as you can see, and they are very web-like. I want to know if this is acceptable? I know it might make more sense for it to be more grid-like, but I'm really not a fan of grid as it looks kind of bland. If it makes more sense, I will do it. But I wanted to see what you guys thought. All other thoughts on the map are welcome as well!

    If it helps, the bridge was built by god-like characters in my world, which is the justification I am using for the engineering to make sense. Either way, it just started out as a plain bridge, with no buildings or anything. It was meant to facilitate the free movement of large swaths of men from one continent to the other. Over time, the humans began to settle on the bridge as inns and taverns were built to house weary travelers. Over time, a city began to grow from there.
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    Guild Adept bkh1914's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, a 'normal' city has 10-12 blocks per mile. At least in the mid-west.
    So your bridge is about three normal city blocks wide.
    Or a wide boulevard with a block of houses & small businesses on either side.

    Looks like your urban packing is a little dense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bkh1914 View Post
    If I remember correctly, a 'normal' city has 10-12 blocks per mile. At least in the mid-west.
    So your bridge is about three normal city blocks wide.
    Or a wide boulevard with a block of houses & small businesses on either side.

    Looks like your urban packing is a little dense.
    Hey bkh. Thanks for the reply. Does this apply to Medieval style cities and older, regarding block sizes? Sorry i didnt specify. Thanks again!

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    Guild Master Falconius's Avatar
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    To me it looks too random. Street don't really develop randomly with out central planning they develop between the shortest/easiest two points to destinations. and then they further bifurcate from there. So in the meantime new buildings or farms may be built which block possible shortest routes to lesser destinations and so on. So as the streets become less and less major they are going to be more and more detailed in their meanderings, but still not random. With a perfectly flat surface such as the bridge you describe where roads have no obstacles to avoid they would be actually web like, with a central radiating point (or most likely several of them) and streets radiating out from the middle and with cross streets joining up the spokes of the web (or webs).

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    Guild Adept bkh1914's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HughVoodoo View Post
    Hey bkh. Thanks for the reply. Does this apply to Medieval style cities and older, regarding block sizes? Sorry i didnt specify. Thanks again!
    My comment was more aimed at giving you a feeling for the amount of space you are dealing with.

    I've not studied the medieval era, but my feeling is that things were rather cramped and crowded by our standards.
    So yes, the buildings will be a lot smaller and crowded together, especially the working-class residential buildings and shops.
    Our early colonial period might be a reasonable analogy for building sizes.
    Of course the affluent have larger residences and places of business.

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    Guild Grand Master Azélor's Avatar
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    The first thing someone needs to know to come up with a reasonable planning is why they made a bridge that large? A real life inhabitated bridge is the Ponte Vecchio in Florence. It is much narrower and the building are on the sides.

    A wide bridge would likely cost a fortune to build. If they really need it to allow a large traffic, then they should prohibit building on the bridge exept maybe on the sides if the buildings are not too large. Or have the lower level as an open gallery with pillars supporting the building located above. Of course, without restrains, buildings will appear everywhere there is space available. But I think my previous comment is still valid. Most street will be pretty linear from one end of the bridge to the other. The perpendicular and smaller street might be less regular.

    Some medieval buildings are pretty narrow (5-6m large). Also medieval cities might be closer to a lack of actual streets exept for the larger ones. Small but sometimes long cluster of buildings often linked toghether with buildings build on top of the alleys. In other words, I could say that the streets is where there is nothing built.

    In conclusion, the layout can be influenced largely by the authorities.

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    Hi all, so I wanted to thank everyone for the replies and provide a quick update on the street layout. I went with Falconius's recommendation to have the streets be more web-like. Let me know what you think about this new layout!
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    Guild Grand Master Azélor's Avatar
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    Maybe I missed it but what is the central point? A market?

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    Guild Expert Wingshaw's Avatar
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    This is an interesting city concept, Hugh.

    I'd say that you should decide how much you want this city to be 'planned' and how much you want it to be 'organic,' as that choice will play a big part in the street layout. Remember, that they don't have to be mutually exclusive: a city may have started being planned but then grew naturally beyond the original layout; or alternatively an 'organic' city may have planned neighbourhoods added at later times.

    Your first WIP, I think, is much too tightly cramped and the layout is far too random. Your second WIP is very formally laid out: all your streets seem to be fairly evenly spaced and parallel to one another; it's a very interesting look, but it would only be possible through formal planning all at one time.

    To get the 'organic' look that a lot of medieval towns have, you should consider making your central avenue something other than a perfectly straight line: even if there are no obstacles to construction, humans don't tend to walk in perfectly straight lines. We take shortcuts, we meander, we don't concentrate, we have different destinations and goals, etc. I'd recommend deciding where your city began and how (a group of merchants setting up shop beside a highway; some soldiers wanting to extort a toll from passers-by; sea-going traders wanting to create a suitable supply port; an ambitious king wanting to control a strategically crucial position; an innkeeper wanting to benefit from passing trade, etc.), and then start thinking about how and why it expanded:

    - did it start in the middle and expand equally fast in both directions? If so, why?
    - did it start at one end and expand to encompass the entire bridge? If so, are there any overflowing areas on the mainland?
    - what landmarks and buildings are important in this city, and when did they appear? To help you, here are a few ideas:
    - where do the people go to work?
    - where do the people get their food?
    - where do the people go when danger threatens?
    - where do the people go to worship?
    - where do the people go to relax/socialise?

    If you want an 'organic' look to your city, my main recommendation would be this: do not allow any roads to be perfectly straight, as that is not a natural thing for people to do (note that a perfectly straight boulevard may have been added later, eg if some ruler demolished houses and shops in his way so that he could lay out such an avenue). Equally important, do not give way to 'street spaghetti' - that is, streets that wind so much that they look like spaghetti or brains. Streets are likely to curve and bend a little bit. It never hurts to check out some historic town maps - try looking at maps of central Paris, Vienna, Brussels etc. There's even a feature in Google Maps where you can measure distances, which I do frequently to get a reference for how wide streets may be, how large buildings are, etc.

    As it happens, I started mapping a city with a similar feature: my city of Birdseye (which you can see - unfinished - here) began on a high pillar of rock jutting out from the mainland. At some point in the city's history, a monumental bridge was constructed (not as large as yours, but big nonetheless), and over time the bridge became the foundation for an entire district of the city, and the city's main marketplace.

    Hope that some of that helps.

    Wingshaw


    Formerly TheHoarseWhisperer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azélor View Post
    Maybe I missed it but what is the central point? A market?
    Hi Azelor. Honestly, I haven't really decided. A large market is kind of what I was leaning towards, but if you have any tips as to what should go there, I'm all ears.

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