Feedback on my (first) urban map

[MapHatter]

Hey guys, so I've always been keen to create maps for the stories I write, but every time I attempt something I always get disheartened by how messy and unprofessional they look, so I'm really just hoping for some advice on how to improve my map. The style I've made this in, sadly, in no way reflects the *ideal* style I'd like to go for. Because of my exceptionally limited skillset, I've been gradually improving my ability with a painted style, but I would prefer to develop a style that utilises textures more effectively. I'm struggling to find the words to describe the style I like, but the best example, really, is Maxime Plasse. Before you say anything, I know he's a seasoned veteran I aspire to emulate his standards and find a style something like his map of Yphorion. I love his understated use of colour and application of texture (I'm assuming some of you are familiar with his work). They are just the best example of the kind of map that I like.

Anyway, this is my map...



I'm happy with some aspects, but by and large this is very incomplete. I've taken to calling it 'stage 2'. The labels are all temporary, for reference. I'm not that fond of the colour and the linework is pretty untidy in places (though my other half assures me most people won't zoom in far enough for the unkempt lines to matter).

Really, my biggest concern is with the roads. The King's City of Ancient Laven is modelled on London, though it's a little further inland. It is, all the same, the kingdom of Alamand's central hub/capital/major port. Around 150 years ago, at the height of its power, Alamand's population exploded and so did that of Ancient Laven. I've taken this as the reason for the largely haphazard network of roads, streets and back alleys, but I worry that they are arranged too chaotically. Also, I'm concerned that I've overestimated the amount of farms/fields in the surrounding area, so I'd like some feedback on this side of things.

Now, if we're talking 'dream map', I may have to resign myself to one day commissioning something from someone, because I don't know where to start changing or developing my style, but in terms of this basic painted style, is there anything that stands out as something I can improve or work on?

Many thanks.

EDIT: I just noticed a typo as well. 'Udiciary' should be 'Judiciary' . For some reason somewhere in the process my shading went to hell. There are hard lines all over the place that weren't there when I was painting them in, but I think it *could* function as part of the 'style'. It's plainly obvious though that some of my lines and shading are untidy, since the file is a large one.

[arsheesh]

I like the layout of the map. The fields are nice as well, and the placement of forests and hedgerows looks good too. One thing I would recommend is having a much thicker line for your primary roads to help distinguish them them from the fields. When you zoom in it's more clear, but when viewed from afar it's difficult to tell just what's going on. In Max's Yphorion map for instance the roads were fairly thick, colored and outlined. Also another thing that would help would be to add buildings, or at least the outlines of whole city blocks. Perhaps this is what you intend to do at a latter phase of the project, dunno.

Another thing, I wasn't entirely clear on what the tan color signified. My guess is the tan is intended to show where the city is concentrated. If so, once again I think it would be clearer to simply add buildings/city blocks. Overall though this looks pretty good to me.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

[Wingshaw]

Arsheesh's suggestion about distinguishing major roads from field boundaries is spot on, but I think it can be taken further: using different line thicknesses can show the entire street hierarchy of the whole city. At the moment, you have a huge tangle of streets, and it's impossible to get a sense of where the main thoroughfares are, or which are small back alleys, because they all have equal thickness/importance. It helps viewers navigate your map when you show these distinctions more clearly.

Lastly, it wouldn't hurt to add some more details: for example, wharves at Port Laven and elsewhere along the river, a scale bar, maybe show large urban parks with lots of grass, that kind of thing. It also helps to give character to the map and lets the viewer become more immersed.

Wingshaw

[MapHatter]

Thanks guys You both hit on the big point that I was concerned about; the roads. I absolutely want to do something else with him, and I even practiced a new style (which involved 'emulating' Max's map, in a bid to try and understand how he does various things). I do want to include buildings, and define the roads, and tidy up the roads a bit. My intention was to put in blocks of built up areas, showing the main/larger roads, but omitting the alleyways and backstreets, leaving them to the interpretation of the reader.

This is what I was working on, as an educational exercise:



This is very obviously an early pass, but I didn't want to invest too much time in this strategy because the time I had finished this thing, I would be erring too close to just ripping off his Yphorion map. I have no idea how to develop the things I learned in to my own style, but you can see I have included the use of buildings to create the shape of the roads. It also really stopped being feasible because of the sheer size of the map. I think one thing I could do would be to simply 'group up' the smaller blocks into bigger ones. I will have to look into a style of building that works in the wider context of my painted style. I am more than a little concerned that I am going to end up forcing myself to tidy up all the colours/line work as well >.<

And yes, Arsheesh, the tan colour was intended to reflect the transition from rural to urban. As you suggest Wingshaw, wharves, a scale bar etc, are all things I intend to add. Somewhere along the line I got stuck using what is effectively draft linework. I think the first step then should be re-drawing the lines, and finding a decent way to incorporate buildings/urban parks/wharves.

[Wingshaw]

Personally, I think your experimental sample is really good, and you could just continue with that...

You could also try looking up "figure ground" plans and "nolli maps" for inspiration.

Since this is a WIP thread, perhaps show a few stages of the process. For example, you could start by figuring out where your major avenues and thoroughfares go, and post that. Then add the secondary roads, and post that. And so forth.

I think one thing you might find, if you follow this procedure, is that you'll tidy up the map automatically by removing a vast number of the roads you have (honestly, I think you could probably cut the number of roads and streets in half to make it more 'realistic') and by establishing a clearer 'order' to the city (that will help to define the shape and nature of districts, functions, pathways etc.).

Also, would I be right in thinking you used a random city map generator? The arrangement of streets in some places seems a bit too random. For example, in the Old Ward, you've got that even smaller area enclosed by a wall. But the road to reach that space (I'm assuming it's like a castle) is only accessible from the western gates. So, if I'm in that castle and want to reach a different part of the Old Ward, I have to exit the gates, go around the fortifications, and then enter again on the other side... Do you see what I mean?

Wingshaw

[MapHatter]

I see exactly what you mean, yeah. I didn't use a city generator, though I can see why it would appear that way. All I did was take small sections of cities/towns/villages etc from Google Earth, then drew the lines over them. I have strong doubts about the logic of my city layout. As I mentioned, I had hoped to explain it away as a symptom of rapid growth, but there are some areas that just make no sense. Now that I have a clearer map of the city, plus all of the major landmarks, I think I would benefit from doing the roads again, this time accommodating some smaller rivers, the main roads and a railway, and be able more clearly link some areas of the city together.

For the sake of clarification, the inner walled area is the original fortress, with the outer wall then encircling the original settlement. A previous king then relocated his home to the new royal palace on the river to the south east. I agree that I would benefit from removing perhaps as many as half as those streets. If I was to carry on with the experimental sample, do you think I should continue with the building blocks as they are, or combine them in to slightly larger city blocks instead? Keeping in mind the layout as it is right now does not represent individual buildings, rather built up areas, whilst still accommodating some of the smaller backstreets.

My concern with the experimental map is that if I continue on as it is, by the end it could look very similar to Max's map of Yphorion. I don't want to spend hours and hours working on a style that ultimately falls perilously close to ripping it off.

[Wingshaw]

I see exactly what you mean, yeah. I didn't use a city generator, though I can see why it would appear that way. All I did was take small sections of cities/towns/villages etc from Google Earth, then drew the lines over them. I have strong doubts about the logic of my city layout. As I mentioned, I had hoped to explain it away as a symptom of rapid growth, but there are some areas that just make no sense. Now that I have a clearer map of the city, plus all of the major landmarks, I think I would benefit from doing the roads again, this time accommodating some smaller rivers, the main roads and a railway, and be able more clearly link some areas of the city together.

For the sake of clarification, the inner walled area is the original fortress, with the outer wall then encircling the original settlement. A previous king then relocated his home to the new royal palace on the river to the south east. I agree that I would benefit from removing perhaps as many as half as those streets. If I was to carry on with the experimental sample, do you think I should continue with the building blocks as they are, or combine them in to slightly larger city blocks instead? Keeping in mind the layout as it is right now does not represent individual buildings, rather built up areas, whilst still accommodating some of the smaller backstreets.

This is why I am a big supported of 'procedurally' crafting a city map. It isn't really possible, in my opinion, to make a convincing city map by copying from other cities or simply starting with lines for roads. Instead, I recommend 'growing' the city bit by bit, and answering questions along the way. Where did the city start and why? In which directions did it grow and why? What were the landmarks at this stage of it's growth? What were the main pathways they used and where did they lead? What direction did they grow next? And so forth...

But then, I'm also a guy who'll spend an entire night debating the best shape to give a staircase. And then erasing it the next night because I don't think it 'works' anymore...

My concern with the experimental map is that if I continue on as it is, by the end it could look very similar to Max's map of Yphorion. I don't want to spend hours and hours working on a style that ultimately falls perilously close to ripping it off.

I wouldn't worry about that. Max is a fantastic cartographer, but one of the things that made Yphyrion so great is that it looks authentic - i.e. it looks like real historical maps. He was copying a style, and so it's fine for you to do the same, or to copy his work.

Wingshaw

[MapHatter]

I do tend to agree, yeah. I think I started with the lines really as a means to get to just get an urban map started. I've tried them many times in the past but I always come unstuck when I try to imagine how the city would have evolved.

But, I think, now that I have a fairly extensive list of landmarks, it should be easier for me to establish which ones would have likely come first, and work from there.

Thanks for all your advice. It's genuinely appreciated. I've got a place to start now, so I'm going to fix my basic lines to make some minor changes I want to accommodate, erase a bunch of the extraneous roads so I have a more refined blueprint, then work in the major roads and figure out a good way to do castle/city walls. I'll post updates, but I couldn't say how much time this is likely to take, due to RL commitments and what not. Sincerely though, thank you again.