Stern's Bridge

[jfrazierjr]

I'm crushed. I went through a whole range of emotions upon reading your post. Thanks, I think you might be right.

Sorry! I think everyone just assumed that since you were using GIMP to do the editing, that you already knew about using layers. Going back now and rereading some of your posts, some of it makes a bit more sense in context. But yea....as Torstan said, once you get your lines down (all in one layer or in separate one's for road, buildings, water, trees, etc) the process of filling in the base colors should only take you a few minutes to get back to where you were. I would keep the line's separate from the fill colors also. Example Layers:

Building Lines
Building Color
Road Lines
Road Color
Tree Lines
Tree Color
Tree Texture
Water Line
Water Color
Water Texture
Grass Color
Grass Texture

Of course, that's just an example, but hopefully you get the drift. Also, if you use a layer mask on each of the color layers to get the color to show through, but only where you want it to, when you want to go back and change the color of something, you don't have to do a bunch of selections anymore, so you might want to think about that.... In this case, with layer masks in use, I just color the entire layer a new color/shade for example, and Layer mask takes care of where it should show through. Of course... you might want to get used to GIMP a bit more before you take that step, but it's something to think about.

[Nytmare]

Also, the work that you've already done isn't a wasted! You can easily copy and paste that into the new document as a new layer and edit out what isn't needed.

[Feralspirit]

Ok, after a ton of procrastination, I am trying to work through the BIG TUT on using GIMP by RobA (I realize not all of it is applicable to my scale, but wanted to do it for educational value...). So, in first steps of defining land and river, I have a problem, I already have structures protruding into my water definition.



I think I should just take them out of this layer, trusting that I can bring them back in later layers, but I don't want to lose them. I thought I had better ask.

Also, a close look will reveal my blur settings. Are they good or should I change them?

[RobA]

Hi Feralspirit-

Since you invoked my name I figured I;d respond with what I do.

I try to keep structures like docks and bridges on their own layer, separate from land, separate from buildings, and separate from roads. Mainly so that I can go back later and give them their own shadow, showing their height.

-Rob A>

[Feralspirit]

Hi. () Sorry to keep everyone (or anyone?) in suspense. I wish I could say that the time I've spent since posting last was clearly evident in this post. Obviously, I cannot. I can say that I'm learning a great deal, but even that is a long slow road (lots of trial and error).

I wanted to throw my map's current state up to see what everyone has to say or suggest. There is still a long list of points that I am not quite happy with. Even so, I think it's progressing towards a state that I will be happy with (I hope).

Thank you to torstan. His user profile holds a beautiful water texture that I promptly jumped on. I thought it would be perfect to add a surface to my river. It wasn't. Sorry torstan, I had to tweak it a little bit, to tone it down. I do think it now serves the purpose I intended very well. Your name, and the original, remain in my patterns dialogue.

I have yet to do anything substantial with Ascension's trees technique, but I continue to think my trees need a little help, so I will probably do some work with his instructions in front of me.

You see that blueish-green area in the NE that kind of runs into the forest, that's supposed to be marsh/swamp. I am still very unhappy with that, but that's the best I've come up with so far. The forest is actually covering a great deal of it, as well. To me, this runs against the point of cartography, which is to convey information, not obscure it. Unless I can figure something out, or one of you can suggest something, I may end up tearing down that part of the forest.



Any and all suggetstions/observations are welcome (read 'needed'), and will be considered in a less-than-timely manner. Thanks.

P.S. The roads and buildings are not in a finished state, I keep the roads up as guides until I figure out what I'm going to do with them. Speaking of buildings, the bevel function generates a dark side on the SE. The only way I've thought of to fix it is to rotate the entire picture 180, bevel, and rotate back. Anyone have anything better?

[jfrazierjr]

Hi. () Sorry to keep everyone (or anyone?) in suspense. I wish I could say that the time I've spent since posting last was clearly evident in this post. Obviously, I cannot. I can say that I'm learning a great deal, but even that is a long slow road (lots of trial and error).

I wanted to throw my map's current state up to see what everyone has to say or suggest. There is still a long list of points that I am not quite happy with. Even so, I think it's progressing towards a state that I will be happy with (I hope).

Thank you to torstan. His user profile holds a beautiful water texture that I promptly jumped on. I thought it would be perfect to add a surface to my river. It wasn't. Sorry torstan, I had to tweak it a little bit, to tone it down. I do think it now serves the purpose I intended very well. Your name, and the original, remain in my patterns dialogue.

I have yet to do anything substantial with Ascension's trees technique, but I continue to think my trees need a little help, so I will probably do some work with his instructions in front of me.

You see that blueish-green area in the NE that kind of runs into the forest, that's supposed to be marsh/swamp. I am still very unhappy with that, but that's the best I've come up with so far. The forest is actually covering a great deal of it, as well. To me, this runs against the point of cartography, which is to convey information, not obscure it. Unless I can figure something out, or one of you can suggest something, I may end up tearing down that part of the forest.



Any and all suggetstions/observations are welcome (read 'needed'), and will be considered in a less-than-timely manner. Thanks.

P.S. The roads and buildings are not in a finished state, I keep the roads up as guides until I figure out what I'm going to do with them. Speaking of buildings, the bevel function generates a dark side on the SE. The only way I've thought of to fix it is to rotate the entire picture 180, bevel, and rotate back. Anyone have anything better?

Good update. One thing you may try to do with this scale so you can maintain your swamp look (I don't really have any ideas about how to make the swamp part itself though) where the trees are is to remove the trees as a amorphous blob(I don't mean that in a bad way) and put down individual trees in a more painterly style. This will let you have some "show through" to the ground below.

Another thing, the ground texture seems to be a bit much. Perhaps have several different textures and hide/show them via the use of a layer mask (each one of course). Right now, the texture is just to repeating for my tastes.

You might also want to think about using a layer mask to "create" your river and have it cover all or more of the layer itself. Then use the layer mask to blur the edges (at specific places if you want) to define the shape of the river. This will let you get some "bleed" through between the swamp and river without such hard lines.

I rather like this start you have...looking forward to seeing more. If you need more on Layer Masks in GIMP, check out my short tutorial via the link in my sig.

[torstan]

That's looking great. The river looks very cool, and I can see the texture in there.

The forest texture could to with being a little more subdued - it's very large for the map right now.

As for the buildings, you probably want to do the following. Create a selection of all of the buildings. Now create a new layer. Go to the gradient tool. Make sure your colours are black and white and change the Shape to Shaped(angular). Now click and drag (it doesn't matter how much) within one of the selected areas. This should give you nice sharp gradients from white to black on all of the buildings. You want the peaks to be white and the lower areas to be black. If this hasn't worked, switch the colours and do it again. Now create a new layer and fill it with 50% grey. Now Go to Filters->Map->Bump Map. In this window you need to select layer with the gradient filled buildings in the top right drop down menu. Now fiddle with the different settings until the preview window shows you an image you like. Note that you can specify the angle of the lighting here.

Once your bump mapping has been done, switch this grey layer's mode to overlay and you should have some nice shaped roofs. Sorry for the slightly rushed walkthrough, the mosaic town tutorial in my sig has a slightly longer description of this process in one of the later steps. Shout if you get stuck doing it, and I'll put together a slightly more structured tute.

[philipstephen]

Hi. () Sorry to keep everyone (or anyone?) in suspense. I wish I could say that the time I've spent since posting last was clearly evident in this post. Obviously, I cannot. I can say that I'm learning a great deal, but even that is a long slow road (lots of trial and error).

I wanted to throw my map's current state up to see what everyone has to say or suggest. There is still a long list of points that I am not quite happy with. Even so, I think it's progressing towards a state that I will be happy with (I hope).

P.S. The roads and buildings are not in a finished state, I keep the roads up as guides until I figure out what I'm going to do with them. Speaking of buildings, the bevel function generates a dark side on the SE. The only way I've thought of to fix it is to rotate the entire picture 180, bevel, and rotate back. Anyone have anything better?

Hello Feral Spirit

I really love the energy of your map, and I liked the direction it was going when you started to add background textures...

So I started to tinker with it in Photoshop - just putting in some layers of texture and using the paint bucket to fill in some colours... i thickened some lines to make it easier to do colour fills and like how it looks...

I hope that is cool... I see you are going another direction with this... but I would say that I liked your old hand sketched trees and map a lot and did not see that it needed a lot of improvement...

even so, I am eager to see what your new efforts produce...

is it okay if I use this map in a D&D game I am running? I am not sure where I might use it yet, but like I said, I love the flow of it -- the streets and everything...

Phil

[Feralspirit]

Well, I was hoping to have an updated map to offer with this post. However, due to the previous post, circumstances warrant a timely response, and, as I have really only dropped in a handful of houses...

Phil, very considerate of you to track me back down and ask permission. Others may have simply absconded it and never mentioned it again. Since you have asked let me say a few words.

You will note at the bottom of jfrazier's posts (and others) a link to Creative Commons liscence. I have not figured out how to make that link a part of my signiture yet, nor did I think (having only my first map posted) it was necessary at this point. I think it's pretty basic, and since you've asked me I ask only that you respect the basic guidelines of it (the creative commons liscense), namely that the map you are using is for personal, non-commercial use, and, if asked, you agree to credit me where it is due (although at this point you could claim that the map you are using was a collaborative effort).

Ok, on a more personal note, your map is lovely. I am flattered that you wanted to make use of it, considering the wealth of fine maps available here and my status as a mere apprentice (I guess there is no accounting for taste ). I am also depressed, as you have gotten a completed map and I continue to plug away at mine . I am only slightly disappointed that you did not choose to use the map with the key (post #13 in this thread), but I suppose I can hardly blame you you for not muddling your way through this entire thread (which is extra long and murky), and you may have chosen not to use the posted key as a DM desiring to create one yourself. For your reference, the scale bar at top left was 200'. Cheers!

[philipstephen]

Phil, very considerate of you to track me back down and ask permission. Others may have simply absconded it and never mentioned it again. Since you have asked let me say a few words.

Ok, on a more personal note, your map is lovely. I am flattered that you wanted to make use of it, considering the wealth of fine maps available here and my status as a mere apprentice (I guess there is no accounting for taste ). I am also depressed, as you have gotten a completed map and I continue to plug away at mine . I am only slightly disappointed that you did not choose to use the map with the key (post #13 in this thread), but I suppose I can hardly blame you you for not muddling your way through this entire thread (which is extra long and murky), and you may have chosen not to use the posted key as a DM desiring to create one yourself. For your reference, the scale bar at top left was 200'. Cheers!

I am glad you liked what I did with your work. I had found the key, but was working with one of your larger files to have a good resolution to work with... here is in updated version with your key included in it.

In regards to the key, I was thinking of retyping the text with a glowing outline.

And I hope you are not too depressed about the work I did... I myself have no talent for visioning a working, creative, and believable layout for a city. I could get down on myself for not having those skills - but there seems to be many talented folks here (like yourself) who do have those skills.

I have been playing around with photoshop for a few years and reading online tutorials on how to work with layers and textures and I do not think it is a reflection on you and your talent that your efforts were slower... it is just a matter of familiarity and practice.

I see this is being your baby and creation - and I did not much more than add some colour and texture. Without the underlying structure of the town - it would not matter how nice the colours looked.

And I think it is important to get feedback from others too - the digital rendering you are doing may have more appeal to a wider crowd. I myself liked the hand drawn touch of your original map, and when I saw you were going for the digital route, decided I would like to see how it may look with a bit more flat but textured colour fills.