Dec '18 / Feb '19 Lite Challenge: Twisting Labyrinth of Death

[waldronate]

CC makes adding lights fast and easy, especially once you get the settings that work for you down, and it handles shadows dynamically. However, the way CC renders (remember it's a CAD program so it has to render the map before it becomes a usable image) is in horizontal strips, and if your lights (or any effects) get caught in a weird way on a seam it can make things go screwy. When that happens you have to move/adjust things to make it look right. The bigger/higher resolution the map and effects the more problems that pop up.

If you're not familiar with it, I recommend looking into the EXPORTSETMPPP command ( as described at http://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/?p=4292 ) for a way to reduce the likelihood of running into problems with banding and lights in CC3+.

[TheWellDressedViking]

This is awesome, thank you so much! I am going to look into this and play with the setting/command.

I just came back into the community so I should really get up to date with all the features in CC3+.

Thank you again!

[waldronate]

It's one of my more useful commands. Unfortunately, CC3+ has to ship tuned to run at the minimum hardware specs and it doesn't have a good way to dynamically adjust the behavior on higher spec systems due to the widely-varying nature of drawings that the system has to process. There are a number of ways to tune the performance of different parts of the system, with EXPORTSETMPPP being the easiest target for improved performance and reduced artifacts on exports.

[Kellerica]

Alright, since there is interest, let's talk CC.

I did make everything in this map with CC so far. I recently did make a map that I got tired of fighting CC on some cliff shadows and decided to just scrap it and add them in Photoshop post render. So I will occasionally do some post CC edits in Photoshop.

I love CC it's the program that allows me, a non-artist, completely left brained systems oriented person, to make beautiful maps. But I don't want to sugar coat things. CC is built off of an old CAD program, as such it can have a steep learning curve and and have some odd quirks. CC is a big investment of money (i suggest signing up for the newsletter to get their discount codes, Black Friday is usually pretty good) and time. I spent a lot of time learning to use the program well. But once I learned the program it makes things pretty fast and easy.

CC makes adding lights fast and easy, especially once you get the settings that work for you down, and it handles shadows dynamically. However, the way CC renders (remember it's a CAD program so it has to render the map before it becomes a usable image) is in horizontal strips, and if your lights (or any effects) get caught in a weird way on a seam it can make things go screwy. When that happens you have to move/adjust things to make it look right. The bigger/higher resolution the map and effects the more problems that pop up.

I don't want to deter you from checking out CC, because it is great, I love it (but it can drive me nuts sometimes), but I also don't want to make it seem like it's something it is not.

So yeah, give it another look.

I see, thanks a lot for the info!

I hadn't heard about it being a CAD based program, so that's good to know. I have some experience working with 3DS Max, but not CAD...

I see what you mean about it having a learning curve, but I think that's true for any program, right? It took me years to learn how to use Photoshop decently too.

You mention it being a big investment of money, though. Looking at their website, I think their prices look perfectly affordable. Of course money is always money, but as someone who does use Adobe and other pro software, 70-90 seems actually a fairly cheap price if it's for a long-term license for the software. I pay twice as much for a Photoshop subscription each year. I don't mean this as "well maybe I just have more money than you do lol" but I'm wondering if there is some hidden cost that I'm not seeing here - are you for instance running a lot of expensive add-ons in addition to the mentioned Schley Dungeons, or are there other additional costs such as expensive updates or the like?

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time for this! I really do like the way your map is turning out.

[TheWellDressedViking]

Alright, I think I’m finally out of posting purgatory.

Thank you so much again Waldronate, especially since it was you who implemented the code, I totally get having to have the program work for everyone. I’m going to find out what my computer’s limit is.

Kellerica, you are absolutely correct. Every program has a learning curve and good tools cost money. I’m just used to talking with people who expect a point and click experience and expect it free. I should have known you would have more realistic expectations.

I do have a lot of add ons, almost all of them. But this map I only used the base CC, Dungeons of Schley for the assets and the floor from a free annual release (Jon Robert’s Dungeon, I just like the tile being the grid). I don’t even know if I used the Dungeon Designer tools, I think the lighting shortcut is with DD but believe you can just type light into the console. So realistically I would say I used CC, DD and S4 (Dungeons of Schley). And I can’t forget, their Tome of Ultimate Mapping, it may seem odd that they charge for it until you see how much work went into it. It is so in-depth and extensive in teaching you how to use CC and all it’s add ons, I consider it essential.

And they don’t do a subscription based charging, the program is yours forever, updates (within the same version) are completely free, and if they come out with a new version depending on when you bought yours they prorate the upgrade charge (starting with free) and often do promotion offers for discounted upgrades.

Personally I find the Dungeons of Schley to be a great value, 25$ for beautiful assets you can use in any program commercially, yes please.

And also, when I said there is a great community, that includes the staff and developers, as you’ve seen in this thread. I found a bug while doing a light effect to create shafts of light, I reported it on the forums, had it confirmed by a staff member who talked to the development team and reported back to me all within 24 hours. And then there was an update that included the fix for my bug in a week or two. That is phenomenal service, can’t expect it will always be that quick, but there it is.

[Kellerica]

Well, I think you pretty much convinced me Once the payment from my last commission clears, I'll treat myself to some new mapping tools and see what they can do.

Thanks a lot, this helped a ton!

[TheWellDressedViking]

No problem, I hope it works well for you. Swing by the forums when you pick it up, they're an interesting but friendly bunch.

I was supposed to get an updated version of my map up, well maybe tomorrow.

[waldronate]

Thank you so much again Waldronate, especially since it was you who implemented the code

I wrote some of the effects and a few of the commands. Most of the hard work was done by other folks.

I’m going to find out what my computer’s limit is.

The default MPP value is 4M; 40M works well for most people with a 64-bit OS and will support maps up to about 6000 pixels in a single pass. You can push it higher, but the working set starts to eat into space used for the bitmap cache. You can force the bitmap load cache to a specific size via RESMODE, but disabling the cache or getting it too small will tend to slow down exports because the system needs to reload bitmaps very often.

[TheWellDressedViking]

Thanks so much for all this info. This is going to make my life easier.

Here is the updated map, done in a higher res with fewer passes.

### Latest WIP ###

[Bogie]

Great to see all the cool details at the higher resolution.