WIP: unnamed Earh-like planet

[Vidgange]

This thread is such a gem! I love it! You've really made an interesting looking world and it's a lot of fun to see it come alive with all the currents, heights and everything else. Keep up the great work!

[groovey]

Hi Vidgange! Thanks for your nice words.

I know I'm far from the most skilled at map making, but I feel good enough if I manage to spark or help keep alive discussions about world-building, because I love it and I feel there's not enough of it around here.

Durakken: thanks a lot for you assistance, it's been key to make up my mind...well, I still need to sit a few hours and deeply contemplate the implications of placing Arlia in Oncar or Inalia and decide which one fits best my needs, but I got the data I need. Some well deserved rep to you for your help.

EDIT:

I'll be damned Pixie, my eyes betrayed me and I didn't see you 18OCT post.

Great input! I love every word of it. I'm so glad I looked back.

Indeed, I've settled to move Arlia to Oncar and viceversa.

Mm, I'm not sure about giving Arlia horses as an specialty tough, since they already have an edge in weapons and at the time of the story are developing the first stable gunpowder, at least on that side area of the continent (I'm not sure yet about what's going on in the far East), I don't want them to be too overpowered versus the Empire.

And about Arlia's ambition's on the west lands of the strait belonging to the Empire... I'm not sure either. To begin with, people on the Empire have a big superiority complex over anyone else, specially Arlia, who wasn't so powerful until recent times, and who they don't trust and don't like its colonies on Acelor's coast.

The "Dukes" (who control the provinces) lineages are not typically local, they come from loyal men of the King/Emperors, well bred into the imperial mentality and culture. I can't see a culture with pride on the level the Greeks had about themselves be willing to give themselves up to be ruled by the Arlians, who they consider inferior.

Some of the "Dukes" would rather be independent or the Empire be more of a federation rather than a centralized monarchy, but they know both the Empire and Arlia would fight them to get the province, so as they see is safer to stay in the Empire, but with a weak Emperor to be autonomous in practice.

So it's mostly a cultural/ideological impediment that limits Arlia's influence on their other side of the strait.

Thanks for solving my doubts about the strait crossing, as is something I definitely need to know about for the story.

[groovey]

WINDS: Baby steps

I have to take it easy for my head not to overheat.

Here's what I got so far following Azelor's principles as best as I can. Let's start with January and for now forget about intensity (longer or shorter arrows) until I get the basics right. Try not to die laughing.

EDIT: So I "polished" January and I did July. Boy, I need a graphic tablet, even a cheap one... my pulse sucks so my lines hurt the eyes.

JAN

JUL

My main issue is, since my center and east south hemisphere doesn't have any High Pressure centers in JAN, and I don't have big landmasses there... I'm assuming it's the winds blowing to the east around the 30 degrees latitude are the ones who "send" wind to my LP systems? Otherwise I got nothing to feed those pressures with?

I'm open to all critiques to improve it.

EDIT:

Here's the latest height-map version. Changes:

- As per ascasnius on point suggestion, I shrinked the ocean shelves and on the leyend I made it 0-200m. Still a WIP though, since I need to polish it on the big eastern continent and try to make the overal outline more uneven.

- Divided de 0-1000m level in two.

- Re-did the N-W of the eastern continent and made small changes when needed elsewhere.



I really hope this is my definitive height-map, tough it looks a bit weird to me in some parts.

[Pixie]

Mm, I'm not sure about giving Arlia horses as an specialty tough, since they already have an edge in weapons and at the time of the story are developing the first stable gunpowder, at least on that side area of the continent (I'm not sure yet about what's going on in the far East), I don't want them to be too overpowered versus the Empire.

And about Arlia's ambition's on the west lands of the strait belonging to the Empire... I'm not sure either. To begin with, people on the Empire have a big superiority complex over anyone else, specially Arlia, who wasn't so powerful until recent times, and who they don't trust and don't like its colonies on Acelor's coast.

Well, if gunpowder weapons are just "at the door", then horse-based military is old history already, so forget that. Canons (and canons in ships, mainly!) are already a military edge - the early expansion of the portuguese in SE Asia is all about projection of power from sea-going ships, so you can take some notes from there for Arlia.

Also, I like your understanding of the Empire - it sounds well thought and an open-door for court intrigue. But you are making it sound too much homogenous, culturally, for such a large area with different geographical realities. Is it just because you are simplifying things for us here at the guild?
May I ask...
How far in the past did people flee from the Empire into Arlia?
Was the Empire already as large as it is now?
Did the Empire form from military conquest of civilized areas or from expansion/colonization by a superior culture?
Are there centripetal forces within the Empire, namely, racial or cultural sub-groups? (or religious)

... and by the way, your height map is fine, and so is your draft of the dominant winds (to my eyes).

[groovey]

LONG POST ABOUT MY WORLD'S HISTORY (Pixie what have you done)

Ooh, canons in ships... now I'm getting excited with the possibilities... I'll definitely study Protugal's case in more detail. Boy, the Empire is going to have to watch out for Arlia after the war (in the Empire) is over... Arlia will help the Princess' side to win the war, for a price, but once that's done, their dynamic is going to change making Arlia a more equal power in that part of the continent.

I feel a Cold War type of context going on: neither of them wants a war with each other, but there's tensions between them because of Arlia's increase in power and the Empire's resistance to give way and lose its preeminence. There's always the danger of a war between them lingering though, when both parts clash on a matter and they're not willing to compromise enough to get to an arrangement, if the matter is important enough.

The Empire will gradually replace the old walls in its settlements, with new ones more resistant to the new weapons, and will fund secret projects to develop its own gunpowder, in order not to be so vulnerable to Arlia.

THE EMPIRE

I agree it sounds too homogeneous, but I think it's so because I only talk about it in political terms, and politically it is pretty homogeneous.

Corrupted by personal ambitions as it is at the time the novel takes place, politically the Empire is a highly centralized and bureaucratic administration. The main administrative positions (regions, provinces, counties) are high offices, and those who hold them are in theory civil servants. This means administration works the same in all provinces, because the system is imported from the "metropolis", and so it's pretty homogeneous.

The origins of the Empire are humble, in an area along an important river yet to specify (since I'm re-working the climate stuff and I need to know the biomes to choose an adequate area) but around the N-E of the isthmus that joins the left side of the big eastern continent, which centuries ago was part of one of the first civilizations to arise in that quarter (on its south) of the continent.

There, 3 small powers, as poleis (with a capital city and controlling other settlements around), had consolidated centuries after the mentioned original civilization had "fallen". So the three poleis are cultural heirs of that civilization, as were other people around. They shared the religion and many cultural customs. The three poleis, after many small useless wars for supremacy, realizing that with fighting each other they got weaker against worst external enemies (raiders), settled into an Alliance, for which they chose a King among one of them each time the previous King died or was removed.

But this alliance didn't kill the supremacy ambitions of the two more militaristic poleis, and eventually one of them (in a long process for which I have another novel planned but I won't get into details about because I'm already getting a too long post), managed to subjugate the other two and gradually integrate them fully to become a single political and military entity.

Ideally the motor that helped this process was the menace of a strong external enemy, raiders again, but this time with lots of tribes organized, which gave the King that unified the poleis the perfect excuse (+ a weird religious experience the founder of his dynasty had, that gives them a "gods touch", considered inheritable by some kind of religious magic by those who carry his family name/surname) for people to rally around him and develop a professional army, thus consolidating the inheritable monarchy.

Ideally too, these raiders would be horsemen, Mongol like, but without steppes near-by is a bit far-fetched, so I still have to figure out the details about the nature of the raiders. The basic idea is to use the concept of conflict between sedentary and nomadic entities forcing each other to develop, until one of them ends up surviving the other, or the nomadic ones go seek weaker victims, like defended here.

So anyway, the now unified hereditary kingdom began to expand north first, towards the areas were the raiders came from, engulfing settlements that had nothing to do along the way, sometimes by force, sometimes by negotiation, since the Kingdom could offer those isolated tribes or chiefdoms protection against the raiders. This would also force them to be pacific among them if they weren't already (so the Kingdom becomes an arbitrator and a pacificator). These protectorates with time would get integrated into the Kingdom.

Once the raiders menace was placated, expansion was driven by other goals (mostly controlling resources). The expansion was done in the span of about four centuries with different rhythms, eventually transforming the kingdom into an Empire (mostly a nominal change for one of the greatest expansionist kings to claim his greatness). Some areas would have been easier to conquest than others, depending on the strength of the political entities who controlled them.

I admit I haven't worked out this on my current map. I've had many "definitive maps" for this fictional world of mine and on each version I had to work out the expansion process chronology and who lived on those conquered areas. Heck, even if the current map the Empire has had different dimensions. For my current map, which will definitely be the definitive one, I'm waiting to have more info on the climate stuff (specially temperatures and biomes), so I can adapt the people of each area to the natural conditions of their habitat.

Again, politically the new areas were integrated or made into provinces, and the administrative model from the capital province was imported, a quite radical change for the people there but culturally... that's another story.


CULTURE AND RELIGION

It's obvious among such an amount of territory there has to exist a lot of cultural and religious diversity. I admit I still haven't worked out much details about culture and religion and the local languages or dialects, since I've focused on those elements with the original nucleus of the Empire only. I'd say along making maps, culture and religion and my weak point in world-building.

The Empire has a decent degree of tolerance towards that diversity... but if you want to be part of the elite, part of the system, you have to learn the official imperial language (an artificial phonetic and alphabetic polishing and unifying of the different dialects of the original 3 poleis), be or convert to the official religion (which is not very organized, so the key is to believe in the right Gods and their mythos explaining the origin of the world and things), and play by the social rules and customs imposed from the capital.

So the officers and important families of each province who wanted to be relevant had to adapt to the official customs (sounds like Rome huh?). With the local elites "converted", the transformation slowly spread to the a good portion of the population in big urban settlements, while the traditional customs would survive more in the rural areas, more the further they were from the big urban centers.

As long as those cultural and religious differences didn't become a challenge, they were tolerated. Of course, rebellions for these causes did erupt every now and then, specially soon after the conquest, and on the later centuries when the crown starts to get weak and a general feeling of decadence starts to spread, making rebels more confident.

So I'd say the main unifying element in the Empire is the political administration, and the gradual spread of the religious and cultural customs of the original nucleus through the local elites.

ARLIA

Arlia's origins is something I have to fine tune now that it has a different location and, not long ago I revised the chronology of the 3 poleis era. Heck, when I conceived the notion that the Arlians were refugees of the kingdoms expansion the 3 poleis origin didn't even exist in my mind.

Since the expansion began around the 180's (the dynasty holding the Kingdom has a year 0, linked to the weird religious experience their founder had, a chronology which didn't catch up until now that they control the kingdom for good), and the novel's events start in 833, it gives Arlia about 650 years to develop a singular enough entity, different enough from the Empire's original nucleus, and with its common roots language to have become more singular too. The self-called Arlians (free people), eventually crossed the strait and managed to establish themselves there and grow fast versus the weak political and less developed entities around.


CHRONOLOGY

I was kind of hesitant to reveal the Empire's chronology because I'm aware how hard is to defend it survived with no major structural changes in about 6 centuries. Of course, the institutionalization and fine-tuning of the centralized administration took some time, a century or two, with administration being less organized and more based on trust of loyal men to rule new land in the name of the King... that causing trouble, and creating the need of the new administration system based on appointed officers.

The major change is the progressive decline of the crown versus the "Dukes" in the provinces after major expansion stopped about 1-2 centuries ago; and the increasing tension and fear for the crown of a big rebellion of the "Dukes" and disintegration of the Empire, which finally happens during the novel. Of course I feel many rebellions, of different intensity and causes would happen in between, so it's not like it was all dandy until then.

I have no trouble explaining the genealogical continuity of the ruling dynasty, since they can practice polygamy and also can have concubines. The hard thing would be to end up without a heir.

[Durakken]

The problem I see with what you've laid out is the assumption that 2 places are going to develop gunpowder when from what we know and are told in legend is that it only came about once and due to a freak accident of alchemy... So I don't see 2 places developing it let alone around the same time. But if Arlia does and the other doesn't Arlia will dominate within the next century limited only by its production capacity, but if it was limited to the point they couldn't dominate in such a way the local rise in power wouldn't happen.

Sent from my RCT6773W22B using Tapatalk

[groovey]

Well, I supposed how the Empire will manage to get their own gunpowder could be another interesting story for part of a novel. For example, an Arlian artisan who's in the guild that holds the secret formula, for whatever the reason is persecuted, he fleeds to the Empire for protection and for a grand compensation he can develop it for the Empire.

I know for sure I want the Empire to get gunpowder in the next 20 years after the war to match Arlia, the details I'll figure out one day.

[Pixie]

Great reply, I'm thouroughly satisfied

About the issue with gunpowder... you can look at how historians think paper production was transfered from China to the Middle East. (yeah, I'm setting you guys homework )

[groovey]

Pixie, homework done. I got this, which is exactly the sort of context I have in mind.

And now, for something completely different...

TERRAINS AND POLITICAL BORDERS



So despite Pixie's reassurance, I tweaked my height map a bit more because I wasn't 100% happy about it in the top-left quarter the big eastern continent. Now I'm fine with it.

I'm still not 100% happy with the bottom right of that continent though.

On the big western continent, I cut down in to 4 pieces the big 1-2km height (lighter pink), but it still looks weird to me, not 100% happy with it either.

What I wanted to get to though, is that I did a grey scale version of the map above and imported it into Wilbur to get the rivers as an image (after applying 10% percentage noise and precipiton erosion with 25 passes, then fill basins, 10% noise, fill basins again, texture find river flow). This is what I got and imported to PS. I am aware I have to do some cleaning on it to remove excesses and rivers that grow out of nowhere.

Since I got a new height-map and river guidelines, I need to fix the political borders on the 4 powers I know of for now in that big eastern continent, which were done on the old version.

For the Empire, this is my idea of where the borders would be, in black:



Borders nº4 actually might be moved further north because nothing very interesting is going on there I think, to justify expanding there, especially if the area turns out to be desertic.

On the inner coast on the southern part of the continent (nº3), the expansion would be close to the coast not to far inland, but the peninsula on the right will be fully controlled.

BUT, with the new map I accidentally got a Nile like big river (nº5 in red), which I figure might be just as fertile as the Nile and thus perhaps would make the Empire interested in controlling it? It would have been tough to since I figure different people controlling said are would be enough developed politically to be hard to conquer, but not impossible. Would you say it makes more sense for the Empire to expand down along that big river rather than not?

I still have to carve some lakes into my land, but I still need to do so reading to figure out where they make the most sense.

[ascanius]

I still need to reread these posts more carefully and catch up but about your last question. I looked at the map and I would think controlling that Nile like river would be a priority. For one thing it would have a good production of food, second it is protected eat and west by mountains. It is navigable so would help with trade along the southern coast. Lastly it is defendable where the mountains create a bottle neck at the south of the valley.