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[Naima]

I'd be leery of any large or professional company that would ask for free work, perhaps even more so. I mean I can understand why an individual would want free stuff, but a professional company? They don't do things they don't charge for, and when they come up with the prices for their product or services they include in the budget the costs of art or labour or whatever else they need. Anyways, doing stuff for limited individuals for 'exposure' is just a bad move. Especially when there are options for artists to participate in contests and/or display their work in places that specifically cater to giving artists a leg up and recognition and which specifically caters to the crowd they would want to be recognized by. For instance NVIDIA is currently having a Future Cities competition, if CG artist or environment artist want exposure that's the sort of thing they do. And if a trade magazine or social media thing like Artstation or Deviant Art wants to give an artist exposure, they do an interview and feature art the artist has already done. Alternatively you can buy services that increase exposure, in places like Facebook or again Artstation (I only keep bringing up Artstation is because exposure is basically the purpose of the platform, and I'm familiar with it).

I started out silver smithing, silver doodads are the first art things that I've been paid money for, and if anyone had suggested that I do free silver work for them for exposure I would have just laughed in their faces. "Ok I give you this necklace or this other doodad made of a precious metal, for free, and you get to enjoy it and use it and keep it, and you'll give me exposure in return? Sounds like a great deal!" Except who is going to pay for the silver? And who's going to pay for equipment used to make it? I was lucky because I didn't realize it then, but what your paying for with silverwork as with any other art is not the materials (because even with huge markups on just the material you'd never cover the cost of your time if that were the case), but the time spent investing in making it designing it and learning to design it and learning your craft; I say I was lucky because I didn't value my time I spent, but silver is definitely not free and so I wasn't about to give things away for exposure. In other words the material cost prevented me from devaluing my work, and prevented anyone having the gall to say I should be giving them free stuff, or I would certainly have fallen into the same trap as other artists do when they are working with pixels and bytes.

Now I know this discussion started out from Tiana's joke, but I can't just let the subject go without trying to encourage artists to value their time and experience appropriately, and say screw you too all those that would take advantage of others like that. Which has no particular reflection on the OP or anyone else here, but Im always willing to rant about this when it comes up

I agree but I would like to highlight two points ...
Usually only who wins the Competition gets the "desired" exposure, so you risk to make a lot of work and be just one of the many partecipants ... I am talking of the really big competitions like the ones you said.
Another point is the "pricing" of the work you do, I have tons of requests for commisions, but knowing the time I take on my works I basically reject lots of them because people think or value very little the time someone is investing in creating a good work.
Sometimes takes a few days, some others entire weeks, When someone realize the price Tag I tell them they usually first ask for a "redux" or simplier version or less detail etc, but honestly I do not feel to make a "less" good artwork, I wouldn't be able to do it and in the end I would put the same effort in it for free, so I decided to put a price limit under which I won't go under and this worked as barrier for commissions, loosing most of them,
I have no idea how others do if are faster then me or make pay much less, but in all honesty time is worth and precious and if I have to do something for free, then I prefer it to be for something I like like personal projects or competitions.

[Voolf]

I'd be leery of any large or professional company that would ask for free work, perhaps even more so. I mean I can understand why an individual would want free stuff, but a professional company? They don't do things they don't charge for, and when they come up with the prices for their product or services they include in the budget the costs of art or labour or whatever else they need. Anyways, doing stuff for limited individuals for 'exposure' is just a bad move. Especially when there are options for artists to participate in contests and/or display their work in places that specifically cater to giving artists a leg up and recognition and which specifically caters to the crowd they would want to be recognized by. For instance NVIDIA is currently having a Future Cities competition, if CG artist or environment artist want exposure that's the sort of thing they do. And if a trade magazine or social media thing like Artstation or Deviant Art wants to give an artist exposure, they do an interview and feature art the artist has already done. Alternatively you can buy services that increase exposure, in places like Facebook or again Artstation (I only keep bringing up Artstation is because exposure is basically the purpose of the platform, and I'm familiar with it).

I started out silver smithing, silver doodads are the first art things that I've been paid money for, and if anyone had suggested that I do free silver work for them for exposure I would have just laughed in their faces. "Ok I give you this necklace or this other doodad made of a precious metal, for free, and you get to enjoy it and use it and keep it, and you'll give me exposure in return? Sounds like a great deal!" Except who is going to pay for the silver? And who's going to pay for equipment used to make it? I was lucky because I didn't realize it then, but what your paying for with silverwork as with any other art is not the materials (because even with huge markups on just the material you'd never cover the cost of your time if that were the case), but the time spent investing in making it designing it and learning to design it and learning your craft; I say I was lucky because I didn't value my time I spent, but silver is definitely not free and so I wasn't about to give things away for exposure. In other words the material cost prevented me from devaluing my work, and prevented anyone having the gall to say I should be giving them free stuff, or I would certainly have fallen into the same trap as other artists do when they are working with pixels and bytes.

Now I know this discussion started out from Tiana's joke, but I can't just let the subject go without trying to encourage artists to value their time and experience appropriately, and say screw you too all those that would take advantage of others like that. Which has no particular reflection on the OP or anyone else here, but Im always willing to rant about this when it comes up

I absolutely agree with you here.
I think you just missed my point.

First and foremost, it is not company that ask you to do job for them for free, it is YOU who want exposure and are willing to give some of your work for free to the company because you know it will reach many people. (That was my point) and that is what you said about artstation and deviant art.

And second, i am of course talking about work where you have to put effort and time, not actually a lot of money into it. Comparing digital work with silver doodads is not good. Of course noone will do that kind of work for free because you have to buy the material first.
Drawing a map (where you already have necessary things) either tablet and pc or pen and paper isn't so expensive. I think everyone can spare couple bucks on electicity or pens for one work if they know it may bring you future clients.

[Kellerica]

While digital mapping and silver-work are not directly comparable, I'd still argue that there is more to it than couple of bucks on electricity. There is always some running equipment cost (and this is something that most digital-work pros, such as graphic designers and the like will actually charge you for). You must have a decent computer at your disposal, and even if you don't have to buy a new one for this particular piece, you have invested quite a lot of money into it at some point, and in order to be able to do the work, you must use money to keep it in decent working condition. You also have graphic tablets and other additional equipment (I'm still paying the cost of getting my Cintiq), also something you've had to invest in. And of course our good friend Adobe also charges me quite a lot just to have the necessary software at hand. Aaand I've bought textures, fonts, some graphic elements such as deco borders, and all of this is stuff I use to make my maps and that I've had to pay the license for.

All of this is stuff that you will have to have, in order to be able to do the work you do. So writing it of as something that is not relevant to the price of the product you make, I don't think that is very sensible either.

[Tiana]

Some of the kindest, nicest, most polite people I've met have been Canadian.

Thank you. I hope I someday will be included in those kindest people you've met.

As a matter of fact i DO NOT know what "working for Exposure" means. I suspect, it's just to advertise yourself more?, but "owing you 80 Exposure Dollars" is quite misleading...

I recommend r/choosingbeggers or ClientsfromHell to get a sense of where the joke came from.

To very specifically explain my mentality at the moment, I wanted to make a "working for exposure" joke since that's the most common substitution for pay. I phrased it in that fashion in the hopes to make a joke that wouldn't result in someone sending me a dick pick in response, instead of saying, "You owe me an exposure", I wanted to try associate "exposure" with a substitute for "money".

However, I hoped that the fact that I posted an unwatermarked full res image made it explicitly clear it was a donation. And I expected nothing from posting it other than the experience creating that logo. Which took like 5 minutes of my precious time, and entertained me for a moment or three. I basically used it as a draft version of what was going to go onto a map I was making at the time to explore a way of setting up some type, so personally there was no loss, and I reserve the right to chose to to occasional work for free when it benefits me.

Usually only who wins the Competition gets the "desired" exposure, so you risk to make a lot of work and be just one of the many partecipants ... I am talking of the really big competitions like the ones you said.
Another point is the "pricing" of the work you do, I have tons of requests for commisions, but knowing the time I take on my works I basically reject lots of them because people think or value very little the time someone is investing in creating a good work.
Sometimes takes a few days, some others entire weeks, When someone realize the price Tag I tell them they usually first ask for a "redux" or simplier version or less detail etc, but honestly I do not feel to make a "less" good artwork, I wouldn't be able to do it and in the end I would put the same effort in it for free, so I decided to put a price limit under which I won't go under and this worked as barrier for commissions, loosing most of them,
I have no idea how others do if are faster then me or make pay much less, but in all honesty time is worth and precious and if I have to do something for free, then I prefer it to be for something I like like personal projects or competitions.

1) it's why I don't enter any of the contests and my work is almost never seen here. Waste of time when I have paid clients already. There was ONE challenge that eeeeeeehhh I wanted to do it because it would've filled in an interesting gap in my portfolio but I just had too much work slated already. And plus if I really want to work on non-paid maps, I have an entire world of my own.

2) I'm capable of whipping out certain styles really fast and will therefore do cheap maps in those styles for indi clients. Sorry. But our styles don't really overlap, I don't think there's any point where I'm fishing for the clients who want your realistic mapping. Anyway, I'm charging cheap prices when I do these (definitely not everything–cheap means "stamps" get used) and they remain in line with my hourly rate, and I'm capable of forcing myself to send off work I hate and never saying a word if my client loves it.

3) Although I now outright ask for what I want and negotiate from there and I do have a cut-off rate for "too small" of a commission too, unless I love the work for some reason.

While digital mapping and silver-work are not directly comparable, I'd still argue that there is more to it than couple of bucks on electricity. There is always some running equipment cost (and this is something that most digital-work pros, such as graphic designers and the like will actually charge you for). You must have a decent computer at your disposal, and even if you don't have to buy a new one for this particular piece, you have invested quite a lot of money into it at some point, and in order to be able to do the work, you must use money to keep it in decent working condition. You also have graphic tablets and other additional equipment (I'm still paying the cost of getting my Cintiq), also something you've had to invest in. And of course our good friend Adobe also charges me quite a lot just to have the necessary software at hand. Aaand I've bought textures, fonts, some graphic elements such as deco borders, and all of this is stuff I use to make my maps and that I've had to pay the license for.

I've bought a total of 3 graphic tablets (including a Cintiq, used), at least 2 programs which I use on a daily basis, textures, a few graphic elements (I found a steal on a whole bunch of these and paid about $100 for an ENORMOUS collection of assets and textures), probably some font packs. I work at night so I pay for the electricity to light the house. I pay for web hosting. While the investment to start my map making business is relatively low... there is still a cost, and I claim that cost on my taxes.

[Diamond]

To counter my own point though...
I am about to spend a bunch of time free making a map for a challenge...

Ah, but you can always sell that map later on down the road. I've done that a couple of times with my challenge entries.

[Kellerica]

Ah, but you can always sell that map later on down the road. I've done that a couple of times with my challenge entries.

True, and besides, a free map done for a challenge still means that you are doing it for your own enjoyment. You are free to work just in the way and speed you want, and free to drop out anytime you want if you are not feeling it. I've offered to do free maps with these conditions once or twice when people have asked me to: you can use the map I made for your game, but all the creative decisions will be made by me, I'll work at my own pace and will hold the right to sell it afterwards. Most people aren't too wild about this kind of deal, but if they are not paying me, I will not treat them in the same way as a paying customer.

[Naima]

Ah, but you can always sell that map later on down the road. I've done that a couple of times with my challenge entries.

How do you sell down the road? I mean I usually put them online freely , you sell prints?

[ScottDA]

Another issue with the asking for free maps issue, and not to pick on OP, this is a general observation, but they are always from new people who come here just to ask for something for nothing. It might not be so bad if they were a part of the community and had even 10 or 20 posts, but they never do. It would be like going into a restaurant you've never been to, asking for a free meal, getting it, and then never going back. Seems almost rude. At least if it were someone from the community there would be some communal bond and familiarity and a sense of "doing for one's own."

[Kellerica]

Another issue with the asking for free maps issue, and not to pick on OP, this is a general observation, but they are always from new people who come here just to ask for something for nothing. It might not be so bad if they were a part of the community and had even 10 or 20 posts, but they never do. It would be like going into a restaurant you've never been to, asking for a free meal, getting it, and then never going back. Seems almost rude. At least if it were someone from the community there would be some communal bond and familiarity and a sense of "doing for one's own."

Also a good point. Doing a favor for someone you could consider a friend is always a different matter (even though sometimes it can also be an equally bad idea!).

[Falconius]

I absolutely agree with you here.
I think you just missed my point.

First and foremost, it is not company that ask you to do job for them for free, it is YOU who want exposure and are willing to give some of your work for free to the company because you know it will reach many people. (That was my point) and that is what you said about artstation and deviant art.

And second, i am of course talking about work where you have to put effort and time, not actually a lot of money into it. Comparing digital work with silver doodads is not good. Of course noone will do that kind of work for free because you have to buy the material first.
Drawing a map (where you already have necessary things) either tablet and pc or pen and paper isn't so expensive. I think everyone can spare couple bucks on electicity or pens for one work if they know it may bring you future clients.

Ah yeah I see. I misunderstood what you meant. As for the silver comparison my point was that the true cost isn't in the materials, but I just so happened to be lucky enough to be working in a material that saved me from myself.

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To the topic at hand:

Competitions are a different matter. There is absolutely no point in doing them unless you are doing it for yourself and having a bit of fun. You might win or you might not. It's not much different from people who participate in marathons or things of that nature. I think that the online nature of competitions still showcases your work if you are good enough and participate over time. Not only the winner will gain exposure, they just happen to gain the most exposure. Finalists all gain as do second and third place etc.

Exposure is actually a valuable commodity, it's just that people who offer it think it requires nothing on their end. For instance art galleries do a lot of work to promote their artist and to try and sell the art, and they also take a big chunk of commission for all that work time and effort they put in doing so (I think 50% is average). And it's worth it for most artists. Some artist are masters of marketing themselves, like Picasso or Warhol, and often enough they bring others along for the ride. But all that said 'exposure' is work, skills, connection and knowledge and effort that the ones offering it to pay for stuff are totally clueless about. Indeed the ones offering actual exposure do want something for themselves, but they also want something for the artist too. They won't just say, "Give me free stuff and you'll be doing yourself a favour." That is what is known as a scam.
(although it occurs to me that is exactly what a lot of social media "influencers" do. I think it's different marketing off the shelf stuff though, the structure of sales is a completely different beast.)